Their Eyes Were Watching God Blog Post #2 (pages 34-93)
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As you read this next section of the novel, respond to one of the following questions OR explore a topic of your own choosing:
1. What stands out to you about Janie's relationship with Joe Starks? What attracts her to him at first and what drives them apart?
2. Which section of dialogue or moment of description resonated with you? Why might it be important to the larger arc of the story?
3. What do you think this relationship with Jody teaches Janie about herself or what she wants out of life?
What stands out to you about Janie's relationship with Joe Starks? What attracts her to him at first and what drives them apart?
ReplyDeleteJanie initially falls for Joe to escape Logan and his oppressive expectations for her. When Joe appears he seems to embody freedom and a lifeystle Janie wants. As their marriage progresses though, it falls into the same loop that Logan's and hers did. Joe begins ordering her around and causing scenes infront of customers at the store. Even after his death Janie doesn't feel safe while in the store because she is afraid he will come in and yell at her for doing something wrong. This constricting nature of their marriage is what drives them apart, and leads to her leaving him in agony on his death bed
I agree, Julian. It is interesting to note that Janie was probably motivated by her relationship with Logan, especially in the beginning of her relationship with Jody. It is also important to state that this discontent in relationships has happened twice to Janie. I wonder if it is something to do with her own personality or an outside factor.
DeleteAt first Janie likes the idea of Jody because he is new and exciting, it was her choice. It wasn't the choice her grandmother made for her, she believed she had found someone that she loved and liked the idea of her man being her own choice. But as the relationship matures, it becomes less exciting and less loving, as she begins to see the true side of Jody. Jody was a controlling man, wanting Janie all to himself, making her look unappealing and not letting her be involved in what she wants to be involved in because he wanted her to be completely devoted to himself. At the end of chapter 7, it reads, "And the cruel deceit of Janie! Making all that show of humbleness and scorning him all the time! Laughing at him, and now putting the town up to do the same. Joe Starks didn't know the words for all this, but he knew the feeling. So he struck Janie with all his might and drove her from the store" (80). Jody begins to take his anger out on Janie, and actually strikes her in this scene. Many of the things Janie fell for in the beginning are starting to disappear and Janie and Jody are beginning to grow apart.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the point that being with Jody was inspired by a desire for indepenence from her grandmother. This makes it all the more surprising that their marriage lasted for so long. If their marriage was inspired by Janie's desire for independence, it is amazing that she didn't leave Jody when he was still alive.
DeleteI think that now Janie has experience two marriages, she knows what and what not to expect through one in terms of 'freedoms', rights, relationships, and even love. She realizes that marrying isn't necessarily her next step and wants to do whatever she pleased, whenever she pleased. She "would ahve the rest of her life to do as she pleased"(89), "Nanny had taken the biggest thing God ever made, the horizon--for no matter how far a person can go the horizon is still way beyond you--and pinched it in to such a little bit of a thing that she could tie it about her granddaughters neck tight enough to choke her. She hated the old woman who had twisted her so in the name of love"(89), and "She had founda. Jewel down inside herself and she had wanted to walk where people could see her and gleam it around"(90) are all quotes of her basically saying she feels renewed and free, and that she disagrees with Nanny on reasons for marriage. I am still confused as to whether she thinks love is still important as anything else, as she didn't like her mariage with Jody because of the oppression and lack of love, but she also says humans didn't loe one another nohow(90).
ReplyDeleteI agree that due to the death of Jody, Janie is able to feel free, almost as if she is able to breath again. I think that Janie still finds love important but I also think she is hesitant about it. For instance she has a lot of suitors but she isn't willing to take anything seriously. I think this is because she is waiting to find one that is different from Jody and Logan, one that also finds love important.
DeleteI agree that Janie has learned a lot from her two marriages, especially how with marriage comes certain restrictions and responsibilities. That could play a large factor in her not wanting to marry again so quickly. As to what you were confused about, to me it seems like she does still think that love is important. The common theme in her first two marriages was a lack of love. She is so reserved with men now because she now know what she wants in life. She is not willing to settle again for life with a man without love because it went so poorly the past two times she had done that.
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ReplyDeleteThe final lines of chapter nine, a conversation between Phoebe and Janie represent the important, overarching idea of Janie's freedom. Throughout this section, the reader sees Janie gaining freedom, and taking on a different role. In the final converstation of chapter nine, Janie states that, "Tain't that Ah worries over Joe's death, Phoebe. Ah jus' loves dis freedom"(93). Phoebe's response to this, however, is that Janie should not speak like that, as others will take it the wrong way. This also represents another important theme that has become important in this section. Judgements are place on Janie for her newfound freedom. The novel describes that Janie was told, "Uh woman by herself is uh pitiful thing"(90). This idea directly challenges that newfound sense of independence that Janie discovers. The idea of freedom, and the perception of an independent woman are shown through the dialogue in chapters five through nine.
I agree that these chapters are a big turning point for Janie because she displays freedom. Janie is very strong because she seems her best when she is an independent woman. We were able to get a glimpse of this even at the beginning of the novel when her views differed from her grandmothers.
DeleteI believe that her relationship with joe teaches Janie to value freedom from the will of others. While at the beginning of their relationship she is happy as it progresses it becomes clear that joe is very controlling of her. This symbolized through her hair rags which are a representation of how joe keeps her from truly being herself. Once Joe dies and Jeanie is released from this she realizes that she does not need to find love immediately like she tried to do after her marriage with Logan but instead enjoys being free which she tells to Pheoby. “As jus’ loves dis freedom” (93). She has taken off and burned her hair rags and is able to fully enjoy life without Joe and all of his demands. Society demands that she must be with a man yet she refuses to do so just to please society and is content to wait until the time is right.
ReplyDeleteI agree and I really like this point. This is especially clear when she is told she needs to marry so soon after Jodie's death; she laughs at the idea and resists so strongly. She says, "Ah ain't even give marryin' de first thought" (91). She wants to enjoy being her own woman despite what society believes she should be doing.
Delete1. Unfortunately Janie seems to see Joe more as a symbol than a human being. She is instantly infatuated with him, running away with him and thinking he's the solution to all of her problems. This is obviously not the case, which is evident once their relationship dissipates into nothing but hostility and snide comments. I think Janie saw Joe more as a symbol of freedom or rebellion and was in love with the idea of running away with a young, confident man. She never got to know him until it was too late and she realized that, while Joe represented the ideals she had as a teenager, his personality reflecting that clashed with her own strong, rebellious personality. It's said soon after Janie and Joe started talking that he "spoke for change and chance"(29) which is exactly what Janie wanted in her boring and dull life that included her marriage to Logan. She wanted to be free of him and still explore the world and Joe held that promise up until when she ran away and she felt that the "morning road air was like a new dress."(32)
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that Joe was Janie's symbol of liberation and hope for the kind of relationship she wishes to be apart of, but I do not think it is necessarily unfortunate that she sees him as such. Obviously, it would have been a great tale for Janie to have fallen in love with the perfect man, but I think this relationship is important for the shape of Janie's character because she proved that she is able to speak up for herself as a woman because she believes herself to be more than what her husbands have made her out to be. Her words to Jodie on his death bed mark that.
DeleteA section of dialogue that resonated with me is the dialogue between Janie and Joe right before his death. Before, Janie seemed very held back and was too afraid to speak her mind towards Joe. It is not until this point where it appears that she releases all the build up anger she had towards his controlling demands. She says, "Naw, Jody, it wasn't because Ah didn't have no sympathy. Ah had uh lavish uh dat. Ah just didn't never git no chance tuh use none of it. You wouldn't let me" (85). He replies "Dat's right, blame everything on me. Ah wouldn't let you show no feelin'! When, Janie, dat's all ah ever wanted or desired. Now you come blamin' me" (85). Again, Janie says, "Tain't dat, Jody. Ah ain't here tuh blam nobody. Ah'm just tryin' tuh make you know what kinda person Ah is befo' it's too late" (85). Here, Janie shows a sense of strength over Jody, something she hasn't been able to do. She continues this speech by highlighting his negative features and basically expresses everything she held back over the years.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this is a key section in the novel, it highlights Janie's turning point. Here she realizes she's free to be herself, which is what she's been waiting for the whole marriage. She's finally able to speak and do as she pleases
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ReplyDeleteThrough Jodie's relationship with Joe, she learned how much she doesn't need a companion. In the beginning of the novel she wants to experience love, and that marriage was incomplete without it. Because they rushed into the marriage and didn't develop a bond, Jodie found herself unable to speak up for herself, and felt constrained by her thoughts. Jodie decides to finally speak her mind once Joe is incapable of doing anything on his deathbed, stating “all dis bowin’ down, all dis obedience under yo’ voice- dat ain’t whut Ah rushed off down de road tug find out about you” (87), which shows that the marriage has let her down. She thought marriage would be filled with love and happiness; however, once reality hit and she was stuck obeying Joe’s rules, she realized that marriage wasn't for her, and she belonged to herself. Jodie’s turning point throughout the novel is when she finally stands up to Joe, stating how unhappy she is with the way he's bossed her around, and after his loss, she states “tain’t dat Ah worries over Joe’s death, Phoebe. Ah jus’ love dis freedom” (93) showing that she enjoys her freedom more than companionship. Overall, through her two unsuccessful marriages, Janie realizes that she values her freedom over searching for love.
ReplyDeleteMy paragraph is very similar to yours. I agree with the fact that she was lonely and wanted a companion, but after reading a lot of the book, I realized she is very independent and can live on her own. Even though she will be fine if she lived without a spouse, it is against her society's norms to be unmarried. She was not happy with Jody because she was being suppressed so much and that is not the way she likes it.
Delete1. When Janie first meets Joe, she is still in her bad marriage with Logan. She becomes interested in Joe since he treats her much better than Logan. Joe takes Janie’s side and says, “You ain’t got no business cuttin’ up no seed p’taters niether” (29). Janie becomes aware that not all men are like Logan and if she was able to marry for love like she originally wanted to, she would not be in her current situation. She decides to leave Logan because she realizes she has the freedom to do whatever she wants for the first time in her life. This taste of freedom is what eventually drives Janie and Joe apart. Joe allows her to escape the control of Logan, but when he begins to control her as well, by making her cover her hair and bossing her around at the store, Janie is not as forgiving.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your point that Janie desires freedom and will do whatever it takes to feel free and independent. Janie definitely isn't forgiving to Jody, as she tells him what he did wrong while he's lying on his deathbed, and keeps telling him up until the moment he dies. When Jody dies, Janie is much more happy and feels much more free.
Delete3. Through Janie's relationship with Jody, she is able to learn a lot about herself. For example she learns how to stick up for herself. Even though it takes a decade or so to do so, prior to Jody's death, Janie is finally able to stand up for herself. When Janie builds up enough courage to enter the room that Jody has been lying in, she says "Jody, Ah come in heah tuh talk widja and Ah'm gointuh do it too. It's for both of our sakes Ah'm talking'" (85). In this moment Janie has finally built up enough strength to deal with her problems. If it weren't for Jody, Janie wouldn't have suppressed all the emotions she had since they were together, and Janie wouldn't have felt the need to release her emotions at this moment. This relationship also teaches Janie that she would rather be lonely than live a life without love. For instance the narrator states "she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn't represent a thing she wanted to know about. She had already experienced them through Logan and Joe" (90). Janie doesn't bother with these men because she knows that if she becomes involved with one of them history will repeat itself. Through her relationship with Jody she has realized herself worth and her ability to be happy on her own.
ReplyDeleteI like how you say that Janie learns a lot about herself through her relationship with Jody. In all of her experiences that we have read so far, she is being told what to do and how to live her life. This has shaped who she is and what she finally realizes she desires in life.
DeleteI agree with this. I think her relationship with Jody teaches her a lot and the respect that she needs to have for herself in a relationship where Jody did not reciprocate that. I think she liked being alone for a change because she was no longer obligated to listen to the demands to Jody. She's now free from someone who repressed her life and her opinions. She can now be herself and now understands her value and the life she wants for herself.
DeleteI also agree. It is only after experiencing life with Jody that she realizes her true passions/desires. Even if it wasn't a great experience for her, especially in the end I think it was necessary for her growth as a person.
Delete2. In Chapter 9, Janie finally stands up for herself. She speaks for all women when she tells Jody, her husband of 20 years, that he mistreated her as a woman throughout their entire marriage and that he never respected her. Janie says, “You changes everything but nothin’ don’t change you- not even death. But ah ain’t goin’ outa here and ah ain’t gointuh hush. Naw, you gointuh listen yuh me one time befo’ you die” (86). She makes it clear that she will not be silenced and she will no longer be the obedient housewife that he always wanted her to be. He says that all he wanted was “feelin”, but she makes it clear that all she wanted was to be more than just a “good wife” and to be known, and because she was never given the respect and trust that she desired as a respectable wife, she was unable to give herself completely to Jody. She leaves Jody to die with the words, “All dis bowin’ down, all dis obedience under yo’ voice- date ain’t what ah rushed off down de road Thh find out about you” (87). It is an empowering passage of Janie refusing to live by the hand of men, and she professes it on her husband’s death bed. The last words he hears is the liberation of a woman from his grasp.
ReplyDeleteGreat response! In chapter 9 we see Janie advocating for other woman and her own freedom. This is very important to her and all the other women. Janie is a very strong, independent and respectable character who isn't afraid to speak her mind, even if others don't agree with her. Another example of this is when the different men come into the store and pity her (clearly with bad intentions) for being a single woman, however she does not fall for their comments. She is happy to be alone, if being alone means being free and not inferior to a man.
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DeleteWhen Jody passed away, Janie learns that she doesn't need a partner to be happy and achieve her dreams. The thing that stood out the most between their relationship was how controlling Jody was to her. Janie was basically a slave to him, because he never excepted who she was as a person, he was always trying to change her. Janie states, "Joe Starks was the name, yeah Joe Starks from in and through Georgey. Been workin' for white folks all his life. Saved up some money-round three hundred dollars, yes indeed, right here in his pocket"(28). Janie was very attracted to him at first because he had big dreams and ambitions like her, and he was also very charming. As they later ran off together and married for many years, Jody became obsessed with himself. Jody strived to be of the highest power of all the people in the town. He had a very big ego, and he let this get in the way of his relationship with Janie. Their relationship began to fall apart when Jody's aggressive and controlling personality grew towards Janie. The narrator states, "Besides she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn't represent a thing she wanted to know about"(90). This quote shows that Jody only suppressed Janie's dreams and her real self, and this is essentially why she isn't sad he's gone.
ReplyDeleteI agree, the biggest lesson Janie learned from Jody is that she doesn't need a man in order to be happy. In addition, she also learns that just because Joe was rich and ambitious doesn't ensure happiness. Initially Janie appears to believe that Joe will be able to take care of her and make her happy because he is wealthy and well spoken however she ultimately finds out that this is not the case.
DeleteI agree with you to a point, Jow is very controlling and is the reason she blossomed into a strong indeoendent women. This is due to Janie being a "slave" and constent verbal abuse as you stated. The narrator also described and made comparisons between Joe and a slave driver. But I disagree that she doesn't miss Joe. She somehow still has feelings for Joe since she still has the feeling of clerking for Joe and for comparing Hezekiah to Joe.
Delete^Brensan Cramphorn
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ReplyDelete2.) One passage that stood out to me in these chapters was when Janie started realizing that her marriage with Jody was not all that she thought it would be. At this moment, in chapter 6, "she stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her. Then she went inside there to see what it was. It was her image of Jody tumbled down and shattered" (72). This passage stood out to me as it represented Janie's body as a home, a home where Jody was supposed to be placed on a high shelf, with great expectations, but he failed to meet those expectations in their marriage. Janie is very conscious of her own feelings, and knows that she isn't happy with her marriage to Jody, but she keeps this unhappiness inside. The imagery in this passage is powerful, as one imagines Janie as a house, where she is supposed to "belong", and in this house inside herself is where she finally reaches her breaking point. This turning point for Janie is definitely important later in the book, as she finally stands up to Jody while he's on his deathbed. I think Janie is very independent and broke when Jody tried to boss her around, and in the future I imagine she will pursue a life of freedom and independence.
ReplyDeleteI also found this passage extremely powerful and a great metaphor. I think that it is an interesting way to show that Janie had such high expectations for her relationship with him. Janie seems to have low expectations for marriage now. There is hope for her because she is free and can start making decisions for herself.
DeleteHi Sam, this is a really great passage to analyze, as it is extremely meaningful and significant. It is so true that Janie had certain expectations for her marriage with Joe, she wanted it to be entirely different from the marriage she had with Logan. However, after some time, Janie realizes that this is not the reality of their relationship and she begins to feel trapped in her marriage with Joe.
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ReplyDeleteJanie becomes interested in Joe because she wants to be treated right, she is able to make the decision for herself, and she is tired of Logan's constant oppression. Janie is sick of being treated so poorly and wants someone to show that they appreciate her. When they decide to go away together, Joe "bought her the best things the butcher had, like apples and a glass lantern full of candies," (34). This among Joe's caring attitude toward Janie shows her that he appreciates her and wants to make her happy. Janie also becomes interested in Joe because she can make the decision for herself. With Logan, Janie's grandmother makes the decision and Janie really blames her grandmother for putting her through so much pain, "She hated her grandmother and had hidden it from herself all these years under a cloak of pity," (89). This time, it is completely up to Janie whether or not she leaves Logan and she really enjoys the freedom with this decision. Janie and Joe begin to drift apart because it seems as though Joe treats Janie in the same way that Logan does. Joe starts to expect a lot more from her and also he yells and fights with her in front of people in the store. Janie is sick of the oppression and once Joe dies, Janie, "jus' loves this freedom," (93). Janie is so sick of being treated poorly by now two men. She knows that she does not deserve this type of maltreatment and will not settle anymore.
The fact that Joe starts treating her the same as Logan seems like the most important point to get out of the section. I like the quote about freedom, I think it best reflects how she feels about Joe's death as well as her decision not to remarry.
DeleteThis is an awesome point. This got me thinking about about the quote in chapter 2, "Janie's first dream was dead, so she became a woman" in reference to her dream of finding love (25). It is almost as though her independence was the key to her happiness, which previously she thought she could only attain through loving a man. While a dead dream seems like a negative, it is possible it opened new doors for her by understanding her society.
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ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, Janie seems to follow the norms of society. She gets married despite being against it at first. At first, she didn't want to get married to Logan. However, she gave in. However, this experience did not turn out well and she ran away with Joe. This proves to be unrewarding as well. Despite the beginning of the relationship being a fresh escape from her previous one, it takes a dark turn. She is beaten down by Jody's dominance and loses her confidence, independence, and voice. The narrator says that, "the years took all the fight out of Janie's face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul. No matter what Jody did, she said nothing" (76). Janie's will power is gone. Somehow, her relationship with Jody turns into the same relationship she had with Logan. She is beaten down and becomes "a rut in the road" (76). After Jody dies, Janie discovers a new freedom. She learns that she doesn't have to be controlled and can have her own independence. Suddenly, she doesn't want to be controlled by a man at all. She reveals to Pheoby, "Ah jus' love dis freedom" (93). Janie values being able to say what she wants as well. When Pheoby warns her not to talk so loud or the townspeople will hear, she says, "let 'em say whut dey wants tuh, Pheoby" (93). In this society, women are thought to not be able to function on their own. Janie goes along with this idea for a very long time despite numerous experiences that would counter the idea. Once Jody dies, she begins to realize that society doesn't have to hold that power. She takes control of her life and becomes truly independent.
I really like your response. I agree that Janie lost her confidence and self control when she was with Logan and Jody. Once she is free from them, she begins to feel free again and is able to make decisions by herself without influence from others. I think that this represents something that many people did not experience at this time; you could leave a relationship if you feel oppressed and uncomfortable. This simply was not a norm in this type of society, but Janie experiences the freedom from doing so.
DeleteI definitely agree with your ideas. Janie was emotionally beaten down to the point that she was un-selfconfident and delicate. As time went on and she was continuously emotionally and physically abused, Janie came to the end of her patience and began craving freedom. Finally, after being free from Jody and Logan and being able to be alone, Janie makes her own decisions and refuses to allow anyone else to control her again. She is an independent and strong woman, and I think her relationship with Jody made her realize how much she needed to be that person, and that her marriage to him was taking her away from who she truly was.
DeleteThe thing that stands out to me about Janie and Joe's relationship is the fact that the town does not show much sympathy towards Janie. This shows the difference of powers in gender roles because it is expected that the women listen and obey what the men ask of them. Joe abuses Janie both verbally and physically. He makes fun of her age even though he is much older than her. He is constantly belittling her and making her feel worthless. The reason she is attracted to him is because she wanted to escape the oppressive and demanding relationship with Logan. She thought that by running away with Joe, she will be able to experience freedom again. Little did she know, her relationship with Joe will be very similar to that of Logan. Joe controls her and makes her feel lonely. Once Janie gains enough confidence to stand up to Joe, she hits him and says "Talkin’ ‘bout me lookin’ old! When you pull down yo’ britches, you look lak de change uh life." This is when Joe and Janie begin to break away from each other. The men in the store tell Joe that they would never want to hear that comment given to them. Joe is embarrassed and does not want to be pitied by the men in the town because he thinks he is superior to them. After this scene, Joe and Janie do not talk much to each other and Joe does not even eat the meals Janie cooks. It gets to the point where Joe doesn’t even want Janie to see him in bed while he is sick and dying. Janie’s built up anger eventually spills out on Joe and that is what drives them apart. After Joe dies, she begins to feel a sense of freedom again and has the ability to make her own decisions without others influencing her.
ReplyDeleteI really like your response to this. I did not ever think about how onlookers watched Janie be abused verbally and physically, and simply ignored it. The fact that no one helped her shows that they found this normal and acceptable behavior. It was common during her time for men to insult and hit their wives, to the point that people didn't even think twice about it.
DeleteOf the chapters we have currently read, and possibly out of the novel as a whole, the single most important moment is Janie's awakening. Janie had finally realized, after years of marriage with Jody, that Joe "was never the flesh and blood figure of her dreams. Just something she had grabbed up to drape her dreams over ... She had no more blossomy opening dusting pollen over her man, neither any glistening young fruit where the petals used to be ... She was saving up feelings for some man she had never seen. She had an inside and an outside now and suddenly she knew how not to mix them."(72) It is a long description but its length is justified. This one moment marks a massive overhaul of the plot. It signifies the beginning of Janie's independence and, for lack of a better word, selfishness. She realizes that she doesn't want to be the obedient wife that joe can just order around. She realizes that Joe isn't someone who she loves. She begins to learn about who she is and what she wants as a person. And all this internal strife is eventually brought to the surface in chapter 8 at the deathbed of Joe. For the first time, Janie confronts joe with her unrestrained feelings. Just once before he dies, she wants him to know what she think.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said except for one thing: she was independent and selfish in the beginning of the book. This is a revival, not beginning of her independence. Her first husband, Logan Killicks, also demands that she have no life or freedom. She saw this and left him for Joe. Janie letting lose her hair after Joe's death signifies rebirth, as she has rediscovered her desire for independence and happiness.
DeleteThat is a really good passage. I feel like it is right to think that this is not the first time she has yearned for independence. She left with Joe in the first place because he offered her independence from her husband and what she thought would be more respect.
DeleteThis seems like it will be an important passage to go back to later in the book as well. A description like this shows a new moral code, one that will most likely explain almost any action later, and any one that is not explained by this realization will most likely have to be justified based on this passage.
DeleteI agree with Mark. This is not a new-found freedom and independence after Joe, because he was her initial freedom from Logan. This is referenced in chapter nine, after Joe's death. After the passing, Janie is confronted by men telling her to marry again and that it is not right to be alone as a woman. Here, I disagree with Mark. She does not show selfishness. She shows confidence in herself, and defiance of the sexist society. Janie in fact "liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn't represent a thing that she wanted to know about. She had already experienced them through Logan and Joe"(90). Hurston makes sure that Janie learns her lesson twice over, about how she does not need a husband or man to support her.
DeleteThe relationship with Jody teaches Janie the value and respect that she had lost for herself. Her relationship with Jody consisted of being stuck in a store without a say and not being able to freely express who she is. It seems as if Jody has taken away everything that Janie originally wanted to find out. She wanted to find out what marriage and love meant to her and she didn’t find that with Jody, especially because he managed to take away her value as a woman. He made sure she didn’t voice her opinion, told her not to socialize with other women in town, and told her to hide her beauty from everyone else. He promised her that he would give her the life that she deserves and treat her differently from how Logan treated her. These two men essentially did the same thing to Janie by instructing her to take on certain jobs and taking away her opinion. Janie no longer felt that she could be herself and her years with Jody made it hard for her to even recognize herself, "the years took all the fight out of Janie's face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul. No matter what Jody did, she said nothing" (76). Janie had to follow rules that Jody gave to Janie and she had to follow those rules. She would never talk back to him because Jody would turn things around and blame it on her. Her relationship with Jody teaches her to try to find her own voice, a voice that she had to hide for so long when she was with him. Jody took away her self image and her freedom. She finally was able to recognize herself when Jody dies, “She tore off the kerchief from her head and let down her plentiful hair. The weight, the length, the glory was there” (87). This represents her freedom and her voice that she hid from the rest of society because of Jody, but when she lets down her hair, she still sees the person she once was and the person she can still be without Jody in her life.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with the fact that both men changed Janie and her overall view of herself. You chose very good quotes showing both when she wasn't able to recognize herself and proving when she was able to. Nice work!
DeleteWhat do you think this relationship with Jody teaches Janie about herself or what she wants out of life?
ReplyDeleteJanie's relationship with Jody has taught her one of the most important lessons. An important epiphany from her relationship was that she was never treated with the respect that she deserved. Coming out of her relationship with Jody she has a new view of herself and a desire for freedom. After being so deprived throughout her entire relationship she learns how important her freedom actually is. Jody was insecure, and used Janie as a way to boost his ego, and deteriorate hers. Jody always treated Janie as if she were an object not another person. This opens Janie's eyes and allows her to gain more respect for herself and never let anyone else make her feel inferior. Janie realizing that she was so deprived from a man causes her to view men differently. When she takes of the store she notices men who weren't friends with her husband traveling far distances to come to the store. She is aware that their motives are not correct. when men come into the store she is constantly told "Uh woman by herself is uh pitiful thing"(90). However, after her relationship with Jody she now knows that it is not a pitiful thing, it is actually one of the best things that happened to her. Janie's idea of an ideal love story has completely changed. It's not about the status of the man or the wealth, it is about who she is as a woman when she is with a man.
I agree Kelsey, I think Janie realizes through the two relationships she has been in is that above all else she wants freedom. She does not want to be treated as most woman in society. She knows what it feels like to be oppressed and bossed around as a woman and after Joe dies, she is ready for a change.
DeleteJanie's relationship with Joe is centered around her self-worth. At first, she is attracted to Joe because he seemed to love her and give her freedom. He showered her with complements and cared for her. He made her feel good about herself, both through his actions and the fact that it was her own decision to marry him. However, as time goes on Joe makes Janie's sense of self-worth go in the other direction. He berates her when she makes the smallest mistakes, and is always sure to make a jab at her looks too. When Janie messes up cutting some tobacco, he says that her "rump [is] hangin' nearly to [her] knees" (78). Joe is trying to keep her for himself; he is afraid that Janie could leave him for someone else. He says that "[n]obody in heah ain't lookin' for no wife outa yuh. Old as you is" because he can't let her know that anyone could be, since she may leave him (79). His fear is understandable, she does leave her husband to be with Joe in the first place, but his emotional abuse drives Janie away. Joe is focused on making Janie think that no one would love her if she leaves him, but Janie isn't looking for someone to do that; Janie wants independence, and Joe's insults only strengthen that resolve to break away.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your claim that joe doesn't want janie to leave him. But that brings into question what does joe see janie as? A wife(in a sort of emotionless sense like a wife in name only)? A trophy? A lover? If it is love, how come we almost never see any acts of affection on Joe's part. Honestly, they don't seem to be in a relationship at all. Joe doesn't even eat Janie's cooking (stated in chapter 8 i believe). Joe's character and motivations really come into question.
DeleteI agree, Joe uses her as a form of eye candy and at times a verbal punching bag. He has a lot of insecurity and he takes it sll out on Joanie because he is afraid she' will leave him. Also, I agree with the statement that "his abuse drives Joanie away", she use to love Joe and his constent verbal abuse drives her away. Joe did a great job at making her want to find independence and helped her blossom into a strong out spoken women. Due to what you stated about how Joe makes Janie think no one loves her.
Delete-Brendan Cramphorn
1. What stands out to you about Janie's relationship with Joe Starks? What attracts her to him at first and what drives them apart?
ReplyDeleteJanie is drawn to Joe Starks because of her awful marriage with Logan. Flaws don't come until months into relationships. This allowed Janie to fall for Stark's charisma and confidence. Little did Janie know her love for Joe would fade away. I think she was turned off by Joe once she saw the type of man he really was. His confidence grew more into cockiness within Janie's eyes. Additionally a stand out part of their relationship is how he treats her. Janie is confident and smart, but Joe treats her like just a housewife. He doesn’t want her to be with him on his level of confidence and she soon realizes she doesn’t want to be there with a man like Joe.
Hi Ben, I also wrote about how Janie simply runs away to marry Joe Starks because of her awful relationship with Logan, her husband at the time. I liked what you said about how Joe starts to treat Janie like a housewife. I think that Janie knew all along that she was settling for Joe, however she wanted to get out of her relationship with Logan
DeleteI agree that Janie left Logan due to their differences, and thought that things would work out better with Joe. Because she rushed into the marriage with Joe, she wasn't able to know the ¨real Joe¨, so once she finally met the ¨real Joe¨things changed. She realized that the marriage was the same as with Logan, which taught her that she would prefer to be single, and marriage would not bring love as Nanny said
DeleteJanie is at first attracted to Joe because of his independence and the fact that he seemed educated. Janie was attracted to the idea of a free thinker. She thought that a free thinker, and someone who was willing to fight for black rights, so that the unheard people would be heard. What drives them apart is the fact that Joe is not willing to share his spotlight, nor is he interested in giving Janie the kind of respect that he fights for his town to earn.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree Dan. Joe is not willing to share his spotlight and for that Janie feels disrespected.
Delete#2 A lot has happened since Jonie runs away and marries Joe. From the oppression of Jonie's voice and feelings to her standing up for herself for the first time. When Joe dies, Jonie is left a large amount of land and a shop all to herself. This leads many suiters to her direction, both for the land and for Jonie's appearance. The way the men ask Jonie is the most important part of the book so far, due to the further reveal of sexism within their society. Men suiters approach Jonie in the store on a daily basis and all say the same general remarks about how a women can't live alone. They state over and over again "uh women by herself a pitiful thing"(90). Essentially saying that it's awful for a women to be living alone without a man. They group most women in the same category as weak and fragile, when Jonie is a very strong willed women who pledges not to marry for the time-being. The interesting thing about this scene is that men are driving long distances to see Jonie. For example "she noticed how often men who had never been intimates of Joe, drove considerable distances to ask after her welfare and offer their services as advice"(90). This means that a lot of men talk to Jonie about her wellbeing snd her being alone, if people from far out come to her than people in the local town must also talk to her. In return it shows that most men within their society are as sexist and or selfish as Jonie's first two husbands are.
ReplyDelete-Brendan Cramphorn
After a short period of time, Janie finds herself in a loveless marriage with Logan Killicks. Thus, it is easy for Janie to be infatuated with Joe Starks once he comes along. Joe sweet talks Janie saying, “You ain’t never knowed what it was to be treated lak a lady ad Ah wants to be de one tuh show yuh”(29). Janie runs off to Eatonville with Joe and even on the train he buys her the best meat from the butcher as well as the best apples and candies. Joe completely wins Janie over, since Logan never made Janie feel loved or special. Yet, what surprises me most about the relationship between Janie and Joe Starks is how quickly Joe changes from an adoring husband to one who is lazy and unloving.
ReplyDeleteTensions between Joe and Janie continue to rise as each chapter progresses. Their disputes range from everything from jealous to working at the local store. It becomes more and more clear that Janie simply ran off with Joe because anything would be better than spending the rest of her life with Logan. As time goes on, Joe becomes more controlling of Janie and it is even stated that he, “wanted her submission and he’d keeping on fighting until he felt he had it”(71). In my opinion what drives these two apart is the fact that they never actually loved one another. This, in addition to the fact that their “honeymoon stage” feeling goes away after only a few months of marriage. After that, their relationship becomes about jealousy, submission and ultimately a marriage without love.
I really agree with your response Mazey. I love your interpretation. I agree that what drives them apart is the lack of love. Janie just goes with what she wants superficially. She doesn't think about the underlying emotions.
DeleteWhat initially attracts Janie to Joe is how he treated her different than her first husband. When he first came along, he was compassionate and kind, which contrasts greatly with her first husband who was extremely controlling and forced her to stay in the kitchen. However, eventually, Joe becomes exactly what she hated in her first husband. He forces her to work in the shop and does not give her much control over her life. She is eventually stuck in the same exact situation she was in before, married but not feeling love. Much like how she feels freedom by running away with Joe, she says she feels liberated when Joe dies.
ReplyDeleteI agree Joe's death was a second chance fro Janie to be liberated. Initially she was being liberated from her first husband to try to find a second but the second time I feel like she was being liberated from the constraints of marriage in general.
DeleteI agree that Janie thinks Joe will bring her more freedom but he turns out to be more similar to Logan. Janie wants a husband who will let her speak her mind and be more independent. Unfortunately, both Joe and Logan have been very controlling stopping Janie from enjoying her life.
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ReplyDelete1.) Being about 40 years old, Janie was lonely and wanted a companion. Joe Starks was the same age as her. He kept her company and he reminded her about her beauty and made her feel youthful. As time progressed in their relationship, Jody began to become jealous of her. “ Janie robbed him of his illusion of irresistible maleness that all men cherish, which was terrible.” (79). She makes Joe feel powerless at times, so he tries to control her. He wants all the power. He makes her do things on his terms, such as having her hair pulled back, not coming out on the porch, talking in his presence with others. After reading this far into the book, I noticed a huge reason Janie left Joe Starks was because he suppressed her so much. Janie is a very independent woman. She can live on her own, even though that is against the norms of her society. Janie doesn't care much what people think, especially when she knows everyone is talking about her behind her back. What makes Janie happy, she will try her best to achieve.
1) at the start of their relationship Janie is attracted to the respect and interest joe shows towards her. While Logan didn't seem interested much in her joe starts to spoil her and treat her kindly in a way that Logan never did. The affection that comes across in his spoiling bring them together. Because he is never trying to force her to work like Logan she initially feels more respected by Joe. However when it becomes clear that he doesn't really respect her their relationship begins to falter. When joe doesn't even give Janie a chance to voice her own opinion at the store opening it becomes clear to Janie.
ReplyDeleteI agree Maggie, I think Joe want to create this outward appearance of respect towards woman however shortly into the relationship he begins to act hypocritical. Joe treats Janie like she is just another employee which is a big reason their relationship fails. I think Joe's acts of kindness when he was spoiling Janie was all just an act to lure her away from Logan.
DeleteYeah totally, Joe was just a better option than Logan, nothing like real love. She has never had the chance to even develop her own idea of love since her grandmother, logan, ands joe have always been in control.
DeleteWhich section of dialogue or moment of description resonated with you? Why might it be important to the larger arc of the story?
ReplyDelete"'Uh woman by herself is uh pitiful thing,' she was told over and again/ 'Dey needs aid and assistance. God never meant 'em tuh try tuh stand by theirselves. You ain't been used tuh knockin' round and doin' fuh yo'self, Mis' Starks. You been well taken keer of, you needs uh man.'"(90)
This section of dialogue resonated a lot with me, and not well. It shows a lot about the setting of Janie's life, both time and place. This reminds the reader that, yes, we are in the early 1900's, thus meaning every woman needs a man to get by. Living in a more advanced society today where we have come so far with equal rights for men and women, this definitely caught me off guard to read. Since Hurston is a woman, there is no doubt in my mind that feminism is an underlying theme in this book. Janie is so much more independent than any of the other characters in the book, and is the epitome of being a strong, independent woman who 'don't need no man'. Right after this section, Hurston adds that "Janie laughed at all these well-wishers" and that "she liked being lonesome for a change"(90). This demonstrates that there will be a reoccurring theme throughout the book that Janie defies the sexist ways of the society around her.
Janie starts her adult life with an arranged marriage to Logan Hillocks because her grandmother wants her to live a stable life. She escapes this relationship because she does not love Logan and thinks she will have a better life with Joe. Janie is attracted to Joe because he appears to be a better man than Logan. What attracts Janie to Joe is his independence and the initiative he takes. Joe wants to move and start a new town. He also appears to view Women differently and have more respect for them. This independence is something Janie wants and thinks she will get if she marries Joe. Joe quickly changes and acts less like a husband and more like a boss. Joe takes his independence and forces Janie to work for him rather than with him. Although he claims to treat woman nicely, he is hypocritical.Janie quickly starts to grow apart because she is oppressed and bossed around. She is no longer attracted to the qualities Joe posses but instead hates him for it. Janie starts to grow apart from him and is no longer satisfied with her relationship, “She came back to the porch with her bristles sticking out all over her and with dissatisfaction written all over her face.” Janie also talks about her new life after Joe’s death and says “Tain’t dat Ah worries over Joe’s death, Pheoby. Ah jus’ loves dis freedom.” Freedom is a new thing for Janie and is something she has not yet been able to experience in life. It is clear that what was so dissatisfying about her marriage was this lack of freedom and now that Joe is dead she has it.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think she will do with this new freedom?
DeleteI agree with your response. I think that Janie sensed freedom when she saw Joe which is a main reason she leaves Logan behind. She did not know she was entering a similar relationship with Joe. From these two relationships she learned that it is better to live without feeling suppressed and held back by the standards men had of women at the time. She witnesses first hand the physical and mental hardships she had to face when in a relationship. Without this feeling, she is able to make her own decisions and I wonder what she will do with this.
DeleteOriginally, Janie was married to a wealthy man who was cruel and forced her to do a lot of extra work. She was attracted by his ambition, that he “spoke for change and chance” (pg35). It seems that her running off with Joe was more about running from her life, rather than running to him. In addition, he had a lot of money and bought her many delicacies. However, after the two moved to a town in Florida, they begin having problems. Jody gives Janie very little freedom, even preventing her from making a speech when he becomes mayor, because he doesn’t think that wives should make speeches. Janie and Joe begin to not spend much time together because he becomes busy with his work as mayor, upsetting her further. Joe is a very jealous husband, even forcing Janie to put her hair in a rag when she is in the store to keep men from looking at it. Janie is frustrated that Joe isn’t fun anymore, begins insulting her frequently, and hits her. I think that Janie didn't know Joe as well as she thought before running away with him, so that when he revealed his true colors, she no longer wanted to be with him.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your reasoning that Janie first went off with Joe because she was running away from her own life. Janie appeared to have not made up her mind about whether or not she would leave until Logan threatened to beat her, Janie had to flee to protect herself. At one part she even mentions how with Joe she does not see the love that she initially saw in the tree that day.
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ReplyDeleteSurprisingly, Janie does not blame men for all of the unhappiness in her life, despite Logan and Joe's attempts to control her and mold her into a certain type of person. The narrator even states, "God had made The Man, he made him out of stuff that sung all the time and glittered al over. Then after that some angels got jealous and chipped him into millions of pieces, but still he glittered and hummed. So they beat him down to nothing but sparks but each little spark had a shine and a song. So they covered each one over with mud. And the lonesomeness in the sparks make them hunt for one another, but the mud is deaf and dumb" (90). It shows the appreciation Janie has for men, who are constantly beaten down by fate but continue to display all the things that make them wonderful.It gives readers insight into why Janie is so submissive to men. It could be the time period she is living in or her religion, but she never puts the blame on the man. Instead, Janie puts the blame on Nanny, with the narrator stating, "In her utter disillusionment, Janie realizes she hates her grandmother for manipulating her and subjecting her to pain—all in the name of love" (89). Janie is to naive too realize that her grandmother is trying to protect her. She may have this because she has not experienced true pain like Nanny and her mother. She may also not want to blame a man because she does not want to accept that she cannot be happy with a 'typical man.'
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Audrey that Janie does not realize what her grandmothers intentions were. Nanny and Leafy experienced horrible treatment and that was what Nanny wanted to protect Janie from. Sure, Janie's situation was not perfect but it could have been worse, and I do not think it's fair to put the blame on someone who was just trying to protect her.
DeleteJanie leaves Logan thinking Joe will bring her more freedom. She wants a man who will not confine her and allow her to be her own individual. She thinks that starting over with Joe in a new town will bring her this freedom. However, Joe quickly becomes power hungry and wants to control every action Janie makes. A sign of this is when he makes Janie wear her hair, up in a scarf, “This business of the head-rag irked her endlessly. But Jody was set on it. Her hair was NOT going to show in the store. It didn’t seem sensible at all. That was because Joe never told Janie how jealous he was” (55). The jealousy that Joe has about other men and how the perceive his wife is one of the factors that drive the two apart. Because Joe is jealous he tries to separate Janie from other people. Over the years he becomes more controlling of Janie and what she does. These actions wear on Janie as she is a woman who wants to be in control of her own life. Janie does not want to feel tied down by the men in her life. When Joe finally dies, Janie frees her hair, “She tore off the kerchief from her head and let down her plentiful hair. The weight, the length, the glory was there” (87). Even though Janie puts the kerchief back on, she is first able to see her hair and appreciate it’s beauty. Joe’s death is somewhat freeing for Janie as she no longer has to live under his controlling hands.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Joe's death was extremely influential on Janie and I think that it will definitely affect the course of the novel as we proceed.
DeleteJoe's death is completely freeing because this is the first time that she has been free for almost her entire life. She never had the young teenager experimentation phase, she has always lived under the control of her nanny or that of men.
DeleteI like how you compared Janie's hair to her overall freedom, just like how it was in the Scarlet Letter.
DeleteI think that Joe's death will be a turning point for Janie. Hopefully she will be able to continue regaining her freedom as the book progresses.
Delete2.) Throughout the entire start of the novel Janie was confined by the role of her gender. She constantly found herself being traumatized by the condescending figures that she her husband. Her first husband was a wealthy yet unattractive man who always wanted Janie to work too hard. When she had more than enough work to do in the home. Here second husband, Joe, was a more caring spouse and did pamper her a bit more with treats, yet he gave her no freedom. Joe also made her work in his store rather than tend to the home like she had hoped. In one instance of the negligence that she experienced, after already keeping Janie from the mule funeral (it was actually more like a party rather than a sad funeral) that everyone went to, Joe, Janie's second husband, ruins her fun again. This occurs when Janie is out with some other folks from the town. They are all messing around having a good time and Joe comes up and says, "I god, Janie,' Starks said impatiently, 'why don't you go on and see whit Mrs.Bogle want? Whut you waitin' on ?' Janie wanted to hear the rest of the play-acting and how it ended, but she got up sullenly and went inside"(70). Janie, again is suppressed from her life's desires to serve a man who she owes nothing to. In chapter 7, a clear shift in the novel occurred. It seemed that it may have been the inciting incident that has sparked the novels plot. Prior to this moment she had constantly been held back from freedom to do exactly what her heart desired. For the first time in her life after spending 18 years with her spouse Joe she stood up for herself. At this point in her life she was 35 years old and Joe was tearing into her making fun of her for being old in their store. But, this time she would not bite her tongue, instead she replied, "Humph! Talkin' 'bout me lookin' old! When you pull down yo' britches, you look lak de change uh life"(79). Joe socked her right then and there in front of everyone. But on the inside he was hurt. He began seeing a "root doctor to fix this problem, but things just got worse and he began to grow ill. Soon his kidneys failed and he died. The most salient aspect of this is that Janie never looked back. She was free, an empowered women, who could fend for herself. Joe had made her wear headdresses to hide her hair in public. She burned them immediately after his death. Janie had come to a realizing the day she stood up to Joe. She was strong and her gender would not hold her back from her life's passions.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the moment in chapter 7 shows a clear shift in the novel. Janie turns into a strong women after Joe dies and she fights out against the men that have always suppressed her in her life. Joe had made her hide who she was and once he died she was not only just free but she became a new women.
DeleteWhen Joe dies and Janie becomes free it is similar to in the Scarlet Letter when she accepts the letter she wears and proudly wears it. In both these moments the women are free from themselves.
DeleteWhat stands out to you about Janie's relationship with Joe Starks? What attracts her to him at first and what drives them apart?
ReplyDeleteJanie's relationship with Joe was never anything special. From the beginning she has always had someone else telling her what it means to be happy and in love. Her Nanny never let her try things out and find her own idea of love. Instead she was forced into an unhappy marriage with Logan. He treated her like dirt and a possession. Anything is better than that. All Joe had to do was be kind to her to win her over. She didn't know any better since she had no experience with real passion, and had no real other options. Joe was simply her way away from Logan. However, it quickly became apparent that Joe was too full of himself for Janie to love him, and to Joe, Janie was just one small part of his prestige. Janie was only content to get away from Logan in the beginning, and then miserable as the marriage progressed.
I agree with you Griffin. I definitely think that Joe took advantage of Janie's poor situation at the time in order to win her over. The book talks about how Joe's character slowly became meaner, but I kind of think that he was brutal to begin with. A lesson that Janie should definitely learn before continuing on with anyone else should be that she should not rush into her relationships and should not be so eager to marry.
DeleteI agree with both Griffin and Josh, I think that Janie was desperate after her relationship with Logan began falling apart. She falls for an abusive man because she wants to gain control over her life. As their relationship progresses she loses all control.
Delete2.) "She had found a jewel down inside herself and she had wanted to walk where people could see her and gleam it around. But she had been set in the market-place to sell. Benn set for still bait. When God had made The Man, he made him out of stuff that sung all the time and glittered all over. Then after that some angels got jealous and chopped him into a million pieces, but still he glittered and hummed. So they beat him down to nothing but sparks but each little spark had a shine and a song. So they covered each one over with mud. And the lonesomeness in the sparks made them hunt for one another, but the mud is deaf and dumb. Like all the other tumbling mud balls, Janie had tried to show her shine"(90)
ReplyDeleteThis passage while broadly referencing mankind in general, speaks more specifically to women in the novel as well as Janie. While most of the women in the society during the time of the story were beaten down and "covered over with mud", it is Janie that chooses to still shine. From the beginning of the book, Janie has clearly cared about her rights and decision to choose a partner. In the beginning of the book, she clearly asserts her independence as she leaves Logan. However, as the book progresses, and her relationship with Joe Starks deepens, she is slowly broken up and buried in mud as the passage suggests. Joe constantly criticizes her and destroys her self esteem with insults and belittlement. Up until Joe's death, Janie was not the powerful woman that she had once been. However, with the loss of her husband, Janie gains a bit of the confidence that she had once had. Once a widow, Janie tries to "show her shine" and live independently of any man. She even admits that "she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn't represent a thing she wanted to know about. She had already experienced them through Logan and Joe"(90). It is this powerful action of resisting remarriage that makes Janie different from the rest of the women in the book. This passage while extremely relevant currently in the story will also resonate throughout the rest of the book. Most readers can infer that the hardships for Janie will not end with Joe's death. The first chapter of the book give great insight into what may be next in Janie's life and how she will meet another man and gain far more prejudice from the town. Despite the increase in judgment in chapter one, we also learn that she has become empowered as she ignores her hecklers and goes inside of her house. This passage is representative of Janie's entire life and will continue to be relevant for the rest of the novel.
I think you make a great point Josh. The last line of the quote, "like all the other tumbling mud balls, Janie tried to show her shine" is a poignant observation of something still very prevelent in human nature, which is the desire to be unique. Another facet of this quote I found very interesting was how it almost implies humans were not created as individuals, which somewhat implies they're not meant to be alone. While I completely agree that it reflects Janie's newfound independence as you stated, I wonder if it means there is some part of her in need of another person in the future.
DeleteAfter experiencing a relationship based off of abuse and oppression, Janie learns to assert herself as an independent woman within her own home. Throughout Janie’s relationship with Joe she is treated horribly. He constantly berates her and causes her pain, both emotionally and physically. His actions towards her cause her to lose her confidence and sense of self. She falls victim to his abusive, power hungry ways. She becomes passive in his presence. The narrator describes her pain writing, “The years took all the fight out of Janie’s face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul” (76). Janie does not realize the power she has, until Joe begins to die. When Joe’s power has been diminished by his illness, she learns that she is deserving of much more than he has given her. She realizes her worth as an individual and is no longer willing to stay silent. As Joe lays in bed dying, Janie confesses her true feelings to him. She states, “You wouldn’t listen. You done lived with me for twenty years and you don’t half know me atall” (86). When she finally confronts her husband she regains her power. She refuses to give allow him to take advantage of her. By taking a stand she is able to establish herself as a strong women.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment of Janie's situation. Janie wanted more freedom in her relationship with Joe but instead he was abusive and took away her sense of self. This leads Janie to live very unhappily for many years. Finally when Joe is dying, Janie is able to take control of her situation and stand up to Joe by telling him how she really feels about him. Hopefully Janie will be able to live a more empowered life throughout the rest of the book.
DeleteDo we think that Janie will continue to be strong and have power over men or will she fall back into being oppressed by a man?
Delete"The Town had a basketful of feelings good and bad about Joe's positions and possessions, but none had the temerity to challenge him. They bowed down to him rather, because he was all of these things, and then again he was all of these things because the town bowed down" (50).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because of it's insightfulness. It exemplifies Sora Neale Hurston's manner of sprinkling profound truths into her narration. This tidbit is worthy of the status a life truth. Demanding respect breeds respect, and giving respect breeds demand for respect. This quote deals with confidence, and the power it can bring. Confidence can come internally or externally, and it exponentiates in the manner described in this quote. It is a kind of self fulfilling prophecy. This is in context of Joe, because he comes to the town acting like he knows what he is doing, which lends itself to his success in becoming mayor of the town. This logic also applies to Janie. When she is introduced in the beginning of the book, all the townspeople are talking about her. However, when she walked by, "nobody even thought to swallow spit until after her gate slammed behind her" (2). Even though they ridicule her, her looks give her status in the town, and make others envious. The effects and dynamic of power will be something to monitor in the duration of this novel.
“ ‘Thank yuh fuh yo’ compliments, but mah wife don’t know nothin’ ‘bout no speech-makin’. Ah never married her for nothin’ lak dat. She’s uh woman and her place is in de home.’
ReplyDeleteJanie made her face laugh after a short pause, but it wasn’t too easy. She had never thought of making a speech, and didn’t know if she cared to make one at all. It must have been the way Joe spoke out without giving her a chance to say anything one way or another that took the bloom off of things” (43)
This section definitely stood out to me most throughout chapters 5-9. The dialect is Joe speaking right after he has been elected mayor of Eatonville. This is Joe’s version of following through on his original promise to Janie, that she would never have to work a day in her life if she were to leave town with Joe. It perfectly demonstrates the mindset during that time period, that women were not smart enough, or capable to speak for themselves. When it comes to important town matters women were never expected to be involved. The line “her place is in de home” impeccably frames the sexism that will continue on in society for over a hundred years more. For the longest time it was believed that a woman’s sole role was to be a great wife and mother, she could do nothing else but that. Janie’s reaction to Joe shows the character she has. She is a brave woman who knows her value in the world. Janie sees this flaw in society, she has since the day her grandmother forced her into marrying Logan. It is not until she bears the abuse from Joe for a long enough period that she decides to stick up for herself. I feel as though this is a common theme that will last until the end of the novel; Janie stands up for herself against patronizing men.
This theme of breaking societies standards for women is also present in The Awakening where Edna tries to be more independent from the men in her life. Both Edna and Janie realize that society expects women to be "taken care of" by their husbands but want to be free of that expectation.
DeleteJanie's relationship with Joe is, like her previous relationship with Logan, not that great. He's a bit of a jerk to her. When they first met, he seemed pretty great. He was a welcome respite from Logan and seemed like a pretty great choice. Unfortunately, they rushed into things and the marriage didn't work out. Janie found herself unable to speak up and be an actual partner in their marriage. When he dies, she "jus' love[s] dis freedom" (93) that she's gained. Her two unsuccessful marriages have both fallen apart because she was unhappy with how she was treated, with what they both considered to be her place in life.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Janie has been stuck in two unsuccessful relationships with men. She is so happy to gain the freedom once he dies because both the men don't treat her right. Once he dies she can be a free women and speak her mind. Hopefully, she will stand up in the future to men her do not treat her right.
DeleteI think that this is an interesting opinion; however I think the real root of the cause is not her unhappiness, but her lack of knowledge as to what she truly wanted in marriage and life. In the end, she realizes she values freedom instead.
Delete1. In terms of what drove Janie and Joe together in the first place, it appears that Janie went with him primarily because of the change he offered. At this point, it was clear to her that if she stayed with Logan she'd never be happy, as the two flat out did not like each other. So when Joe comes along, he's able to capitalize on her distaste for her current marriage by offering a change for the better, in the form of a man who seems like she could actually enjoy being around. What inevitably drives them apart is Janie's realization that Joe isn't particularly good for her either, driven in part by Joe's increasing crabbiness and anger in his old age. The two of them have gotten older, and, as a result, have become more aware of their respective problems, and so end up having a breakdown in their marriage.
ReplyDelete3. What do you think this relationship with Jody teaches Janie about herself or what she wants out of life?
ReplyDeleteI think this relationship teaches Janie that she wants to be equal in any partnership. I think she learns that men will always look down on her and will always put her below them. Its clear again and again that Janie wants to be left alone. It seems that she would enjoy a more solitary lifestyle, and often wishes she did not have to be around people. Janie learns that she must put on a face for the world to see, and that she needs to keep up this face at al times. She refers to this state of mind several times throughout this section of the novel, and indicates that she stores away her feelings and wants in this "inside" and puts up a front on her "outside". Janie's behavior stems fro Jody's treatment of her, and she learns to behave in a way that causes her the least amount of trouble. When Jody dies she still has to keep up this front but she doesn't really mind, she has been doing it for a long time, and she knows she will need to keep doing it for a lot longer. Overall Janie grows up a lot, and she learns a lot about herself, and how she wants to live her life.
3. Janie relationship with Jody teaches her how husbands suppress the ideas and freedoms of their wives; Janie wants more independence and freedom for herself. For example, in chapter six Jody makes Janie wear a head rag to hide her long hair; Janie is younger and much more attractive than Jody and it’s implied that he is trying to cover up her beauty. Also, at the store, Jody and Janie get into an argument and she accuses him of being no fun but he argues that he is just acting responsible. Janie disagrees, but she decides to hold her tongue because she doesn’t want to anger him. Jody also exerts his power over Janie by ordering her back into the store when she was having a discussion with Sam Watson and Lige Moss. Jody doesn’t let her make her own decisions and have her own conversations. Even when Jody hits Janie, she doesn’t lash out and tries to keep a calm exterior even though on the inside she is angry. Due to all of these reasons, Janie becomes worn down. “The years took all the fight out of Janie's face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul.” (page 76.) Jody’s oppressive behavior over Janie leads her to want a better future for herself and not want to be tied down with societies standards for women. Its when Jody dies where Janie finally feels free to do what she wants.
ReplyDeleteThese chapters specifically emphasize the similarities between Janie and Edna's relationship with men. Janie was forced into her marriage and Logan thinks that she should be working in the fields and in the house doing everything. Logan does not appreciate her and even yells and threatens to kill Janie for an unnecessary reason. Janie works to redefine her role as a women when she leaves Logan, something unheard of in society. She shows a great deal of freedom and resilience when she leaves him for Joe. However, her relationship with Joe begins to also go down hill. Janie is similar to Edna because Edna's husband wants her to be the ideal women in society who cares for her children. But Edna wants to be different. She has no control over her life and in the end the only option she has to become a free women is to kill herself. In both books, the women end up being free. Janie becomes free after her husband dies and Edna becomes free after she dies. Janie is described as, "The young girl was gone, but a handsome woman had taken her place. She tore off the kerchief from her head... the weight, the glory was there" (87). At this moment Janie is freed from the men in her life.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Janie will stay free after leaving Joe or if she will go back to being suppressed? Maybe she will take things to extremes and kill herself just because she wants to be free and fight against society.